From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
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- Noble Korhedron
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From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Hi guys!! This being the premier Wood Elf forum I've found, I'd be interested in your tips as to how I can optimise for fighting Wood Elves. Most of my games are arranged in advance these days, so I usually know what army I'm going to play against, and can change my lists to suit. I'd rather not post a list yet, as I'm looking for more general tactics to start - basically the do's and dont's of using Empire against Asrai.
- Tegalad
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Just to confirm are you running a wood elf list or a empire list. Are you after advise on wood elf tactics or how to beat wood elves?Empire against Asrai.
Luke.
- Noble Korhedron
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Sorry, I didn't realise I was being ambiguous. I want to beat Asrai - I'll be playing as Empire.Tegalad wrote:Just to confirm are you running a wood elf list or a empire list. Are you after advise on wood elf tactics or how to beat wood elves?Empire against Asrai.
Luke.
- Git
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
You weren't really ambiguous, it's just that you're on a Wood Elf site. Usually people here want to know how to beat the other armies. :PNoble Korhedron wrote:Sorry, I didn't realise I was being ambiguous. I want to beat Asrai - I'll be playing as Empire.
Saying that, I don't know if I want to help you. You're the enemy, after all.
Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
One piece of advice : shooting great cannons at Treekin might prove very ineffective. Other then that : yes you're the enemy
- unicorn
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Basically:
The main treats for you are his treekins and treemans. You need to find a way how to cripple/destroy them. Rest of the units is tough, but will not be able to break the steadfast of your ranked units for several rounds of close combat, so will get stucked - and after that, they can be countercharged very effectively.
The main treats for you are his treekins and treemans. You need to find a way how to cripple/destroy them. Rest of the units is tough, but will not be able to break the steadfast of your ranked units for several rounds of close combat, so will get stucked - and after that, they can be countercharged very effectively.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Ellisthion
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
I would say:
Don't waste light shooting (crossbows, handguns, etc) trying to kill Glade Guard, Dryads, or Wizards. The Glade Guard aren't really worth killing, the Dryads will shrug it off, and the Wizard, even if you hurt her, will probably heal herself with Lifebloom. Target priority for light shooting should be #1: Eagles or Warhawks, #2 Wild Riders or Glade Guard, #3 Wardancers.
On the flipside, fielding anything too soft isn't a great idea because it'll get shot. Things like Pistoliers won't last very long.
If you want to be cheesy, Wood Elves can't handle Steam Tanks very well.
Don't waste light shooting (crossbows, handguns, etc) trying to kill Glade Guard, Dryads, or Wizards. The Glade Guard aren't really worth killing, the Dryads will shrug it off, and the Wizard, even if you hurt her, will probably heal herself with Lifebloom. Target priority for light shooting should be #1: Eagles or Warhawks, #2 Wild Riders or Glade Guard, #3 Wardancers.
On the flipside, fielding anything too soft isn't a great idea because it'll get shot. Things like Pistoliers won't last very long.
If you want to be cheesy, Wood Elves can't handle Steam Tanks very well.
- Noble Korhedron
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
@Ellisthion: Then a stank it is. I might pick my Knights for cavalry against you guys in that case. Although I'm sure the Pistolier won't really matter if they die eventually, 'cause it's only like losing a cannon, which won't be much good against you guys anyway. I think I'll be better off using a couple of mortars due to your affinity with woods!!Ellisthion wrote:I would say:
Don't waste light shooting (crossbows, handguns, etc) trying to kill Glade Guard, Dryads, or Wizards. The Glade Guard aren't really worth killing, the Dryads will shrug it off, and the Wizard, even if you hurt her, will probably heal herself with Lifebloom. Target priority for light shooting should be #1: Eagles or Warhawks, #2 Wild Riders or Glade Guard, #3 Wardancers.
On the flipside, fielding anything too soft isn't a great idea because it'll get shot. Things like Pistoliers won't last very long.
If you want to be cheesy, Wood Elves can't handle Steam Tanks very well.
@Unicorn: What would you suggest VS treekin/treemen - Pistoliers for S4 AP shooting, a Helblaster for area-denial, extra Greatswords?
Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
They are flammable, so a Fire Mage is about the most effective thing you can field.
- unicorn
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Treekins? Hmm. Magic, probably, is the best choice. They are flammable and you deny them their ward. Or STank. They can not do much to it - and even treeman hates him. Also, Handgunners with fire banner are pretty annoying.Noble Korhedron wrote:@Unicorn: What would you suggest VS treekin/treemen - Pistoliers for S4 AP shooting, a Helblaster for area-denial, extra Greatswords?
Treeman? Cannon. It may take some time, but cannon is the most annoying thing for the treeman. All it takes is one lucky roll and the treeman is gone.
Also, as it may sound weired, the runefang on General is bad for them as hell. 3 attack hitting on 3+, autowounding with no armor, and as it is magical weapon, with no ward? Damn, ouch. Especially if you place him in the unit with Fire banner. Not to mention the situation manage to support this with savage beast of horrors (tough relying on this combo is nothing I will recomand to you).
Anyway, I do not like pistoliers at all in 8th. I think that outriders are far superior to them, especially as you can reposition them with vanguard after you see whole opponents deployment.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Noble Korhedron
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Please clarify what you mean by the Beast of Horos combo?! Also, I move generally try to use my pistoliers as march blockers/warmachine hunters, so outriders are unsuitable for me as they cannot do this sort of thing as well as pistoliers can. Why? They can't move and shoot. Though if you know any good links to outrider tactics, feel free to post 'em.
- unicorn
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Marchblockers against Ld 8-10 amy? Wow.Noble Korhedron wrote:Also, I move generally try to use my pistoliers as march blockers/warmachine hunters, so outriders are unsuitable for me as they cannot do this sort of thing as well as pistoliers can.
Warmashine hunters against WE? Wow.
Also, geneally, what problem do Empire have with warmashines? Unless you are playing cavalry empire, you care about WMs least from all armies out there.
Move into good position with vanguard and use the fact they are one of the very best shooting units in this game? And if needed, stop shooting and start moving/blocking. They still are fast cavalry.Though if you know any good links to outrider tactics, feel free to post 'em.
They still are nice multitask unit, only you need to know when to shoot and when to move.
You have runefang in the unit. Against WE or some regenerating beasts, you prefer to have the fire banner as well.You also havthe priest in there, to have hatered.Please clarify what you mean by the Beast of Horos combo?
And now you cast savage beast of horrors on the General. And ping - he have 6 autowounding attacks who ignore AS, with re-roll to hit. With the unit behind, this is something you can take nearly any monster down on the charge.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Empre doesn't need a fully tailored list to WE to win. A STank is enough to dictate the field of battle.
WE wil avoid it at almost all cost and it will give your other units enough benefit to win (WE will avoid getting stuck in combat anywhere the Stank can go with 1 movement and a charge).
In play Empire often enough and it includes always a STank, the only way I can win the games is avoiding it and making use of terrain and his army setup.
In tournaments WE have a good chance against Empire.
Against a tailored Empire list, WE will be munched. WE don't have the flexibilty to tailor likewise vs empire.
So if you like to play a good game tailor only a bit againts WE.
If you play only to win follow the earlier advises to the letter.
WE wil avoid it at almost all cost and it will give your other units enough benefit to win (WE will avoid getting stuck in combat anywhere the Stank can go with 1 movement and a charge).
In play Empire often enough and it includes always a STank, the only way I can win the games is avoiding it and making use of terrain and his army setup.
In tournaments WE have a good chance against Empire.
Against a tailored Empire list, WE will be munched. WE don't have the flexibilty to tailor likewise vs empire.
So if you like to play a good game tailor only a bit againts WE.
If you play only to win follow the earlier advises to the letter.
All people reading this are some kind of maniac. So why bother picking another name :-)
- Noble Korhedron
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Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.
Actually, I wouldn't be averse to winning at all costs just for once, just to have finally posted a win against WE. But normally I'm not a power gamer, T.B.H.