From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Moderator: Council of Elders

Locked
User avatar
Noble Korhedron
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 198
Joined: 02 Aug 2005, 04:30
Armies I play: Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs, "Codex" Marines, Orks
Location: Leinster, Ireland
Contact:

From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Noble Korhedron »

Hi guys!! This being the premier Wood Elf forum I've found, I'd be interested in your tips as to how I can optimise for fighting Wood Elves. Most of my games are arranged in advance these days, so I usually know what army I'm going to play against, and can change my lists to suit. I'd rather not post a list yet, as I'm looking for more general tactics to start - basically the do's and dont's of using Empire against Asrai.
Regards,
NK.
Image
User avatar
Tegalad
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 65
Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 14:04
Armies I play: High Elves, Wood Elves
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Tegalad »

Empire against Asrai.
Just to confirm are you running a wood elf list or a empire list. Are you after advise on wood elf tactics or how to beat wood elves?

Luke.
User avatar
Noble Korhedron
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 198
Joined: 02 Aug 2005, 04:30
Armies I play: Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs, "Codex" Marines, Orks
Location: Leinster, Ireland
Contact:

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Noble Korhedron »

Tegalad wrote:
Empire against Asrai.
Just to confirm are you running a wood elf list or a empire list. Are you after advise on wood elf tactics or how to beat wood elves?

Luke.
Sorry, I didn't realise I was being ambiguous. I want to beat Asrai - I'll be playing as Empire.
Regards,
NK.
Image
User avatar
Git
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
Posts: 407
Joined: 05 Apr 2011, 11:34
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins, Skaven
Location: Norway

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Git »

Noble Korhedron wrote:Sorry, I didn't realise I was being ambiguous. I want to beat Asrai - I'll be playing as Empire.
You weren't really ambiguous, it's just that you're on a Wood Elf site. Usually people here want to know how to beat the other armies. :P

Saying that, I don't know if I want to help you. You're the enemy, after all. :D
Kulgan86
Campaign Team
Posts: 741
Joined: 29 Jan 2011, 12:11

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Kulgan86 »

One piece of advice : shooting great cannons at Treekin might prove very ineffective. Other then that : yes you're the enemy :mad:
User avatar
unicorn
Walking Rulebook
Posts: 4267
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 13:12
Armies I play: Wood Elves
Location: Czech republic (GMT+1 for WFO purposes)

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by unicorn »

Basically:
The main treats for you are his treekins and treemans. You need to find a way how to cripple/destroy them. Rest of the units is tough, but will not be able to break the steadfast of your ranked units for several rounds of close combat, so will get stucked - and after that, they can be countercharged very effectively.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
User avatar
Ellisthion
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 202
Joined: 19 Aug 2005, 07:52
Armies I play: Wood Elves, Tau
Location: Sydney
Contact:

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Ellisthion »

I would say:

Don't waste light shooting (crossbows, handguns, etc) trying to kill Glade Guard, Dryads, or Wizards. The Glade Guard aren't really worth killing, the Dryads will shrug it off, and the Wizard, even if you hurt her, will probably heal herself with Lifebloom. Target priority for light shooting should be #1: Eagles or Warhawks, #2 Wild Riders or Glade Guard, #3 Wardancers.

On the flipside, fielding anything too soft isn't a great idea because it'll get shot. Things like Pistoliers won't last very long.

If you want to be cheesy, Wood Elves can't handle Steam Tanks very well.
Image
User avatar
Noble Korhedron
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 198
Joined: 02 Aug 2005, 04:30
Armies I play: Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs, "Codex" Marines, Orks
Location: Leinster, Ireland
Contact:

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Noble Korhedron »

Ellisthion wrote:I would say:

Don't waste light shooting (crossbows, handguns, etc) trying to kill Glade Guard, Dryads, or Wizards. The Glade Guard aren't really worth killing, the Dryads will shrug it off, and the Wizard, even if you hurt her, will probably heal herself with Lifebloom. Target priority for light shooting should be #1: Eagles or Warhawks, #2 Wild Riders or Glade Guard, #3 Wardancers.

On the flipside, fielding anything too soft isn't a great idea because it'll get shot. Things like Pistoliers won't last very long.

If you want to be cheesy, Wood Elves can't handle Steam Tanks very well.
@Ellisthion: Then a stank it is. I might pick my Knights for cavalry against you guys in that case. Although I'm sure the Pistolier won't really matter if they die eventually, 'cause it's only like losing a cannon, which won't be much good against you guys anyway. I think I'll be better off using a couple of mortars due to your affinity with woods!! :p

@Unicorn: What would you suggest VS treekin/treemen - Pistoliers for S4 AP shooting, a Helblaster for area-denial, extra Greatswords?
Regards,
NK.
Image
Kulgan86
Campaign Team
Posts: 741
Joined: 29 Jan 2011, 12:11

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Kulgan86 »

They are flammable, so a Fire Mage is about the most effective thing you can field.
User avatar
unicorn
Walking Rulebook
Posts: 4267
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 13:12
Armies I play: Wood Elves
Location: Czech republic (GMT+1 for WFO purposes)

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by unicorn »

Noble Korhedron wrote:@Unicorn: What would you suggest VS treekin/treemen - Pistoliers for S4 AP shooting, a Helblaster for area-denial, extra Greatswords?
Treekins? Hmm. Magic, probably, is the best choice. They are flammable and you deny them their ward. Or STank. They can not do much to it - and even treeman hates him. Also, Handgunners with fire banner are pretty annoying.
Treeman? Cannon. It may take some time, but cannon is the most annoying thing for the treeman. All it takes is one lucky roll and the treeman is gone.
Also, as it may sound weired, the runefang on General is bad for them as hell. 3 attack hitting on 3+, autowounding with no armor, and as it is magical weapon, with no ward? Damn, ouch. Especially if you place him in the unit with Fire banner. Not to mention the situation manage to support this with savage beast of horrors (tough relying on this combo is nothing I will recomand to you).
Anyway, I do not like pistoliers at all in 8th. I think that outriders are far superior to them, especially as you can reposition them with vanguard after you see whole opponents deployment.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
User avatar
Noble Korhedron
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 198
Joined: 02 Aug 2005, 04:30
Armies I play: Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs, "Codex" Marines, Orks
Location: Leinster, Ireland
Contact:

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Noble Korhedron »

Please clarify what you mean by the Beast of Horos combo?! Also, I move generally try to use my pistoliers as march blockers/warmachine hunters, so outriders are unsuitable for me as they cannot do this sort of thing as well as pistoliers can. Why? They can't move and shoot. Though if you know any good links to outrider tactics, feel free to post 'em.
Regards,
NK.
Image
User avatar
unicorn
Walking Rulebook
Posts: 4267
Joined: 18 Oct 2007, 13:12
Armies I play: Wood Elves
Location: Czech republic (GMT+1 for WFO purposes)

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by unicorn »

Noble Korhedron wrote:Also, I move generally try to use my pistoliers as march blockers/warmachine hunters, so outriders are unsuitable for me as they cannot do this sort of thing as well as pistoliers can.
Marchblockers against Ld 8-10 amy? Wow.
Warmashine hunters against WE? Wow.
Also, geneally, what problem do Empire have with warmashines? Unless you are playing cavalry empire, you care about WMs least from all armies out there.
Though if you know any good links to outrider tactics, feel free to post 'em.
Move into good position with vanguard and use the fact they are one of the very best shooting units in this game? And if needed, stop shooting and start moving/blocking. They still are fast cavalry.
They still are nice multitask unit, only you need to know when to shoot and when to move.
Please clarify what you mean by the Beast of Horos combo?
You have runefang in the unit. Against WE or some regenerating beasts, you prefer to have the fire banner as well.You also havthe priest in there, to have hatered.
And now you cast savage beast of horrors on the General. And ping - he have 6 autowounding attacks who ignore AS, with re-roll to hit. With the unit behind, this is something you can take nearly any monster down on the charge.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
User avatar
Maniac2
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 59
Joined: 01 Jan 2009, 15:12
Armies I play: Wood Elves

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Maniac2 »

Empre doesn't need a fully tailored list to WE to win. A STank is enough to dictate the field of battle.
WE wil avoid it at almost all cost and it will give your other units enough benefit to win (WE will avoid getting stuck in combat anywhere the Stank can go with 1 movement and a charge).
In play Empire often enough and it includes always a STank, the only way I can win the games is avoiding it and making use of terrain and his army setup.

In tournaments WE have a good chance against Empire.
Against a tailored Empire list, WE will be munched. WE don't have the flexibilty to tailor likewise vs empire.

So if you like to play a good game tailor only a bit againts WE.
If you play only to win follow the earlier advises to the letter.
All people reading this are some kind of maniac. So why bother picking another name :-)
User avatar
Noble Korhedron
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 198
Joined: 02 Aug 2005, 04:30
Armies I play: Empire, Orcs & Goblins, Dwarfs, "Codex" Marines, Orks
Location: Leinster, Ireland
Contact:

Re: From the horses' mouth - Empire VS Asrai.

Post by Noble Korhedron »

Actually, I wouldn't be averse to winning at all costs just for once, just to have finally posted a win against WE. But normally I'm not a power gamer, T.B.H. :)
Regards,
NK.
Image
Locked