How many Glade Guard is too many?

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Zeromage
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How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Zeromage »

Hi, guys,

I've been a gamer all my life (D+D, Magic, Heroclix, video games, etc.), but I'm new to Wood Elves, and Warhammer FB in general. I should preface this question by saying that I bought pretty much my entire army at once, and then I painted all my Glade Guard at first. I played my first game this week, and I fielded 20 Glade Guard (they were the only units I had painted), and nothing else. Well, I played my friend's Dwarf army (he is a much more experienced player, he's been playing for 10+ years) and I shoot it to pieces. He started complaining afterwards that my army was cheesey. He then took out his Beastman army, and said he was going to use 3 chariots to counter my army (he said that was his version of a cheesey army). Well, my rolls were all great, and once again I won the battle. After this he looked like he was about to cry about it. He said he is never going to play against me again. My question is, would you consider an all Glade Guard army to be cheesey? Or was he just being a baby?

btw, I also have 5 Glade Riders, 3 Treekin, 12 Eternal Guard, 10 more Glade Guard, 8 Waywatchers, and an Elven Lord which I haven't painted yet.

Any thoughts?
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by lune »

The amount of glade guard you can field is dependent on the amount of terrain and the table size. In general, you can field about 1 unit of glade guard per 24 inches board width without loosing sight to targets (youve got other units on the table that will often end up in your unit's line of sight if not played carefully).
Apart from that I must wonder that you could shoot him to bits.. dwarfs have higher toughness, armour save and though they hit 1 worse, they wound better (all for the same cost).
Guess you had a lucky day :D
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Tethlis »

Considering that Glade Guard are simply our Core archer unit, and are among the least mobile troops we have in our army and are not particularly specialized in any way, your opponent should man up and stop crying. Dwarves versus Wood Elves are a good match up, and one that both of you should enjoy plenty of engaging and challenging games with. Tell him to bring a couple units of Quarellers, and suddenly Glade Guard won't seem like such a problem anymore...
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Zeromage »

So what if someone just grabbed an entire force of 40 glade guard. Would you guys consider that a cheesey army?
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Herald »

GG aren't cheezy. Of course, 40 GG at 500 pts is a bit unbalanced. A slow, fragile army will be shot to pieces, but then a single unit of knights can mop up your GG without breaking a sweat. Stone, paper, scissors... So, to have a more fun game, you should add some other elements to your army.
Usually, you have too many GG when you can't get LoS for them all, 2-3x10 is common at 1-2k. :)
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Deepwood »

Whilst I entirely agree that 40+ GG at 500pts is unbalanced, GG are the core of the WE army and fielding 20 of them is not at all unreasonable in my view! Especially vs Dwarves with their good armour and toughness!!!

Last dwarf game I played sounds like it was a bit bigger than yours (2000pts) but I fielded 40 GG and it was a close game with no complaints from my (good natured!) dwarf opponent
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Fikol »

In my community the only WE rooster considered to be cheesy is dual Treeman with BSB combo. but not as cheesy as VC, Daemons may be.

As for GG there is this guy in Polish leaque who is fielding 6x10/11 GG + at least 2x5GR and has excellent results (games at 2000-2350 points)

I usually field at least 3x10 GG (I don't have more models ;) )
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Finbulvetr »

20 GG is no way cheesy, IMHO...In fact,I think that at least 20 GG are a must in most lists, since all our shooting is accurate but S3, but that's my oppinion...
As an ex-Dwarf player I do know there are many ways to skin an elf, both CC and long range, and easily (specially at low points lists) so your buddy might have been overacting a little...Anyway, well done!! Thanks to you, Athel Loren has got rid from not one, but two attempts of spoil :D

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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Zeromage »

Well, I think the point he made wasn't that I had 20 GG, but that I had ONLY GG. I made an offhand comment like, "Man I should just make my whole army GG" and that's what got him really mad.
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

Tell him about the player (me) who crushed a Dwarf army, with old Thorek, using one unit of 82 GG, and little else.

There were special circumstances.

All GG armies are not cheesy at any point level, although TerrainHammer may make them so, such as a convenient section of castle wall for them stand on, hide behind, and shoot down from.
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Runidis »

Herald wrote: A slow, fragile army will be shot to pieces, but then a single unit of knights can mop up your GG without breaking a sweat.
Just 2 days ago, i played an 650 pts campign match vs. Empire, he had 2x5 knights with 1+ armor save. he gets the 1st turn, goes full movement towards my GG with his general in one unit, in my turn i shoot=shoot down 3 HORSEMAN (!!!) :eek: he FAILS A PANIC TEST=flees out of the table through other knights, they fail too and run out :crazy:
So tell me about knights :roll:

just kidding, luck is an essential part of WH, so if your opponent is rly playing for 10 years, he should know that :tear:
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Mithrail »

Runidis wrote:just kidding, luck is an essential part of WH, so if your opponent is rly playing for 10 years, he should know that :tear:
Yeah but in my short experience with WE it also seems like that some opponents like to blame our playstyle (shooting and movement) for their losses, that has happened to me sometimes (especially with my brother and one of his friends they refuse to play with me since they think that wood elfs play dirty :cry:)
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Runidis »

Mithrail wrote: Yeah but in my short experience with WE it also seems like that some opponents like to blame our playstyle (shooting and movement) for their losses, that has happened to me sometimes (especially with my brother and one of his friends they refuse to play with me since they think that wood elfs play dirty :cry:)
so we have to talk to Khorne player like this:" Yo dude, NO CHARGES!!! dont charge man thats DIRTY PLAY!!!! I DONT WANNA PLAY WITH YOU ANYMORE!!! EVER!" :D :D :D
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Finbulvetr »

Zeromage wrote:Well, I think the point he made wasn't that I had 20 GG, but that I had ONLY GG. I made an offhand comment like, "Man I should just make my whole army GG" and that's what got him really mad.
:crazy: Strange...Just think on anyone's face when fielding WW with their lethal shot, or WHR with their strike'n'flee ability...Plus some GG, of course :D
Luck is luck, sometimes it helps, and sometimes not (when your carefully thought battle-plan goes to hell :cry: ) and that's an inherent part of the game, the part that actually makes it funny, isn't it ;)

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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Mithrail »

Runidis wrote:
Mithrail wrote: Yeah but in my short experience with WE it also seems like that some opponents like to blame our playstyle (shooting and movement) for their losses, that has happened to me sometimes (especially with my brother and one of his friends they refuse to play with me since they think that wood elfs play dirty :cry:)
so we have to talk to Khorne player like this:" Yo dude, NO CHARGES!!! dont charge man thats DIRTY PLAY!!!! I DONT WANNA PLAY WITH YOU ANYMORE!!! EVER!" :D :D :D
Pretty much what I tried to tell them but they didn't buy that :confused:
The prayer was not heard after all
and the penitence no longer means anything
Must the longing, compassion,
and even the love for each other be shattered into pieces,
as if it were a fragile and sad song that the elves sing?
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by unicorn »

Runidis wrote:
Herald wrote: he had 2x5 knights with 1+ armor save. he gets the 1st turn, goes full movement towards my GG with his general in one unit, in my turn i shoot=shoot down 3 HORSEMAN (!!!) :eek: he FAILS A PANIC TEST=flees out of the table through other knights, they fail too and run out :crazy:
HOw they manage to flee out of the table, when about 24" out of the nearest edge? :eek: 14" movement plus 12" deploy zone - 2" base deep :paranoid:

Anyway, Zeromage... Just simply offer him an army-switch. You will see the battle from his point of view and he from yours. May help. Or not ;)
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Runidis
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Runidis »

unicorn wrote: HOw they manage to flee out of the table, when about 24" out of the nearest edge? :eek: 14" movement plus 12" deploy zone - 2" base deep :paranoid:
Well, he gave them a slight wheel, so they ran out at the side table edge :roll: sad...
unicorn wrote: Anyway, Zeromage... Just simply offer him an army-switch. You will see the battle from his point of view and he from yours. May help. Or not ;)
Great solution :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Zeromage »

unicorn wrote:
Runidis wrote:
Herald wrote: he had 2x5 knights with 1+ armor save. he gets the 1st turn, goes full movement towards my GG with his general in one unit, in my turn i shoot=shoot down 3 HORSEMAN (!!!) :eek: he FAILS A PANIC TEST=flees out of the table through other knights, they fail too and run out :crazy:
HOw they manage to flee out of the table, when about 24" out of the nearest edge? :eek: 14" movement plus 12" deploy zone - 2" base deep :paranoid:

Anyway, Zeromage... Just simply offer him an army-switch. You will see the battle from his point of view and he from yours. May help. Or not ;)
Yeah, actually I did offer an army switch but he refused. I actually still haven't talked to the guy since, but from the feedback I've received here I feel a little big better about the situation. I just finished my 3 treekin, so at least now I have another unit to field. (Unfortunately that was the only guy I had to play with!). I hope to post some pics of my army up tonight in the "Meadow of Arts" section of the forums later on tonight.
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Falconrider »

My general rule is no more than 10 GG per 500pts. This covers both fun factor for your opponent and usefullness for yourself.
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Lathain Stalker »

Honestly, Dwarfs are a bad team at 500 points - they really need larger point values to do much. However, if he called facing shooting cheesy, that's not your problem and he's overreacting a bit! Next time he'll have to bring some quarellers to shoot your GG.

However, I'd say try and play larger point games against him. Dwarfs are a frustrating army to play as when you can't even field a good, solid block of infantry.
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by popisdead »

I like 20, in two min units, but I fielded 14 (with stand and shoot banner), and two units of 10 in a tourney for an all-elf army. I think generally beyond 30 will not help much as firing lanes become difficult to focus on. Plus,.. the other units are all so good :)
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Tethlis »

popisdead wrote:I like 20, in two min units, but I fielded 14 (with stand and shoot banner), and two units of 10 in a tourney for an all-elf army. I think generally beyond 30 will not help much as firing lanes become difficult to focus on. Plus,.. the other units are all so good :)
Agreed. 2-3 units of Glade Guard are good up to the 2000 point level, but above that things just become too crowded in the deployment zone. It's not like we're lacking in other good choices either, and Glade Guard aren't even that great a choice if you're trying to field a mobile shooting oriented army.

Zeromage, your opponent will be laughing out the other side of his face once you're pulling off combined charges with Wardancers and Wild Riders. The idea that Wood Elves are a shooting army that avoids combat is largely false; our shooting is not dominant or strong compared to the shooting of other races. If we're going to talk about Wood Elf shooting, then the operative word is "consistent". We can dash around the table without much difficulty, maximizing our mobility while still hitting a lot of targets on a 3+. Most opponents mistake that kind of consistency for raw power, and so we end up in the same category as Dwarves, Dark Elves and Empire.

Ironically enough, if you do want to field a very mobile, combat-avoidance shooting list, then Glade Guard are a unit you don't want to take.
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Finbulvetr »

Lathain Stalker wrote:Honestly, Dwarfs are a bad team at 500 points - they really need larger point values to do much.

I don't think so...A huge unit of warrior w/ Shields (20 cost 180 without CG), a thane and a gyrocopter is a cheap list and really hard for many armies (not to mention for 20 GG with their AMAZING armor save :D )
Lathain Stalker wrote:However, I'd say try and play larger point games against him. Dwarfs are a frustrating army to play as when you can't even field a good, solid block of infantry.
That's true...The bigger the Dwarf army, the nastier it goes (stunties rules, folks ;)), and maybe we asrai can't field a decent block of infantry, but I wouldn't say it's a weakness when we have such a movility (major drawback with dwarves...)

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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Tribun »

Cheesy :D :D

Dawi Armies with 20 Handgunners, that's cheesy! And very lame.
Take as many GG as you want, they are the major throng of the asrai fluffwise and have as many boni as mali!
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Re: How many Glade Guard is too many?

Post by Loren's Watcher »

for 2k i usually field 30 GG. my play style is more shooty...so im all for more arrows :) i would say that as long as you can play without being in combat before turn 3 the more the merrier :)
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